Masonic Forum Home Search Members Calendar Who's On Welcome Guest ( Login | Register ) Recent PostsRecent Posts Popular TopicsPopular Topics Home » General » Ritual - Esoteric & Symbols » The North is Dark 33 posts, Page 3 of 4«««1234»» The North is Dark Rate Topic Display Mode Topic Options Author Message TerryTerry Posted 11/02/2010 09:27 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 03/06/2010 08:02 Posts: 595, Visits: 756 Mike Martin (11/02/2010)While these concepts are very interesting, I am not following how they actually they link into the Masonic Ritual. Can some of the posters give some examples of how they have developed out of the Masonic Ritual for the less experienced (such as myself). Mike I have stated on another thread that I consider masonic work, WET work, ie, Western Esoteric Tradition, and I consider that the Jewish religion, or more importantly, Kabbalah as its vessel, and in my view masonry derives from the Judeo/christian traditions, so that is where my view comes from, I may be wrong, however masonry means different things to different people, we are told in the 2nd degree to make the study of nature and science our goal, I just probably took it differently then others.As a further complication, I consider that the judeo/christian religion to come directly from an older source, so I see things differently. Please, you do not have to agree with me, and as stated I may be completely wrong RegardsTerryTamworth 652Australia Post #18397 lauderdalelauderdale Posted 11/02/2010 11:20 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/07/2010 12:56 Posts: 2,238, Visits: 4,269 Some very interesting points Bro Terry and well worth additional discussion. I can see Bro Mike Martin's reason for asking the question as such speculations do not tend to inform UGLE Craft Ritual although they may well be discussed in SRIA and its associated bodies. Post #18400 Russell HollandRussell Holland Posted 11/02/2010 11:41 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 11:54 Posts: 246, Visits: 1,522 Mike Martin (11/02/2010) examples of how they have developed out of the Masonic Ritual It is rather that Masonic ritual developed from those principles. For example, Masons aspire to the Temple in the Heavens, indeed that is the only exit shown in the EA TB. The structure of the Temple in the Heavens is reflected in the layout of the lodge and the nature of the officers. This potentially provides an isomorphic resonance with the Temple in the Heavens. If operated effectively this may induce some of the 7 Masons (Officers) of the Temple in the Heavens to visit our earthly lodges and thereby make them perfect. In practice this is rather rare, but I have seen a representative of the Blazing Star looking into the lodge. I was in the Chair and had been rather edgy all night when His eye appeared behind me. The eye was larger than the East wall of the temple. Generally however lodges are only inspected by representatives of earthly Grand Lodges. Post #18401 whistlerwhistler Posted 11/02/2010 19:34 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 20/07/2010 08:48 Posts: 71, Visits: 304 Mike Martin (11/02/2010)While these concepts are very interesting, I am not following how they actually they link into the Masonic Ritual. Can someof theposters givesome examples of how they have developed out of the Masonic Ritual for theless experienced (such as myself). Mike For Many of us things haven't developed out of Masonic Ritual - Rather Masonic Ritual has developed out even more ancient Ritual. Mike with out being airy Fairy and looney - just as some folk can go to the Church or Cathedral and feel great presence, some Freemasons go to their Lodge and see and feel great presence. No better simple example is when some lodges introduce the Elementals to a neophyte. When the ceremony is performed with great intent by all, those little critters are very evident. How did the introduction of those critters to our Masonic Ceremony occur - It was from Channelled advice, and reflects a reality that has long been known by many. In the 18th Degree there are parts of the Ceremony that some would call pure Christian - but in our Lodge we recognize those apparent "Christian" bits to be much much more ancient than the times of Jesus - There are parts of the HRA Degree and the passing of the veils some see ending in a Desert Tent, others can see the heavens and beyond. In all of our ceremonies you will find traces that take you back to very very ancient times. and it is the melding of those rituals that make Freemasonry, A Guardian of Ancient Mysteries - and lets us ponder on the Brilliance of Great Architecture HGW Whistler Eastern order of International Co-freemasonry Auckland New Zealand "Truth All truths are Truths of Period and not truths for eternity. What has been truth for the time was and is as good as men are capable of receiving Post #18411 TerryTerry Posted 11/02/2010 19:37 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 03/06/2010 08:02 Posts: 595, Visits: 756 Terry (11/02/2010)Mike Martin (11/02/2010)While these concepts are very interesting, I am not following how they actually they link into the Masonic Ritual. Can some of the posters give some examples of how they have developed out of the Masonic Ritual for the less experienced (such as myself). Mike I have stated on another thread that I consider masonic work, WET work, ie, Western Esoteric Tradition, and I consider that the Jewish religion, or more importantly, Kabbalah as its vessel, and in my view masonry derives from the Judeo/christian traditions, so that is where my view comes from, I may be wrong, however masonry means different things to different people, we are told in the 2nd degree to make the study of nature and science our goal, I just probably took it differently then others.As a further complication, I consider that the judeo/christian religion to come directly from an older source, so I see things differently. Please, you do not have to agree with me, and as stated I may be completely wrong Mike, firstly my apologies for rushing above reply, I should have taken more time over it,Masonry, as we know it from 1717, is related to the Judeo/Christian religion, however, the moral story and essential truths behind it dates from a far earlier time.As stated I believe the Jewish religion, or more specifically The Kabbalah to be the custodian of these truths ( WET) , preserving if you like, this knowledge for our generation and beyond.On the face of it, they appear not to link into masonic ritual,although the ritual is full of OT ( Old Testament) truths and sayings, and for the enquiring mind one needs to study the associated writings of the OT ( Like Kabbalah etc) to recieve a fuller understanding of what is being conveyed.You and I may read the same piece of ritual and understand it differently, but that does not mean either one of us has got it wrong, and if you are able to partially part the veil your view and understanding will be different to mine.Mike, my views did not develop out of the ritual, rather the other way around, by reading and talking with more learned masons than myself.Please understand that this is my view only, and I may have completely gotten it wrong, and BTW my viewpoint does change over time RegardsTerryTamworth 652Australia Post #18412 PilgrimPilgrim Posted 11/02/2010 20:31 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 14:34 Posts: 65, Visits: 116 Russell Holland (11/02/2010)Pilgrim (10/02/2010)Well I am enlightened. With Isis being Egyptian and Proserpine (or Proserpina) being Roman (Greek Persephone) I had no idea these initiates of the mysteries mixed and matched their pantheons so freely.Zechariah Sitchin has made a reasonable job of matching the various gods to demonstrate that there is only one set with often parallel titles.He even manages to match the times of disappearance and appearance, e.g. disappearing from the Middle East and appearing in South America.ImmanuelPersonally I put Sitchin on a par with Erich von Daniken and Immanuel Velikovski but we'll have to agree to differ on that one. Post #18415 Russell HollandRussell Holland Posted 11/02/2010 22:39 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 11:54 Posts: 246, Visits: 1,522 Pilgrim (11/02/2010) Personally I put Sitchin on a par with Erich von Daniken and Immanuel Velikovski but we'll have to agree to differ on that one. I think there you put your finger upon a widespread problem: How to move from speculation to science. Masonry has now lost its science and is doomed to everlasting speculation. Post #18418 KeithKeith Posted 12/02/2010 04:20 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: 19/07/2010 02:18 Posts: 351, Visits: 651 We're doomed I tell you! DOOMED!!!! Keith PM. Waimarino 175 Kaimanawa 426 Waikato Lodge of Research 445 Taupo, New Zealand Post #18419 zambukzambuk Posted 12/02/2010 06:43 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 30/06/2010 00:52 Posts: 44, Visits: 333 As part of a talk/walk around we often use about the Officers of the Lodge, here is the Secretary/Treasurer's part..... "Wor Master, the Jewels of the Treasurer and Secretary correctly define their mundane duties. These two Officers, as will be observed, are situated in the NORTH, the place of DARKNESS and GREAT SILENCE, the realm which lies between Death and Birth, whence come souls and whither they return. The Secretary represents the Recording Angel. His crossed pens remind us that all our deeds, good and bad,are recorded by the Guardian Angel, but it is the SINGLE KEY of the Treasurer which reminds us that it is only our good deeds which are worthy of safe keeping and careful guarding. The KEY has a beautiful symbolism. It symbolises the TOUNGUE, and teaches us that it should always be ready to speak in a Brother's defence, and never lie to his prejudice" I have never really known the Treasurer and Secretary to observe the "silence" part of the above!! Cheers zambuk WM Lodge Thespian Lewis No.804 IG Lodge Carlton Kogarah No.305, Treas.Lodge Concord Technology No.432 Treas. St Andrew Phoenix RAC No.2 Treas. City of Sydney RAC of R&I No.101 PGStd Royal Order of Scotland - PGL of NSW 30° A&A Scottish Rite - Province of NSW DGIW USGC of NSW & ACT PDGDC UGL of NSW & ACT I'd get Divorced if I joined any more! Post #18420 chestnutchestnut Posted 12/02/2010 11:17 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 10:20 Posts: 652, Visits: 2,093 zambuk (12/02/2010) The KEY has a beautiful symbolism. It symbolises the TOUNGUE, and teaches us that it should always be ready to speak in a Brother's defence, and never lie to his prejudice" The treasurers key surely has to do with locking the funds away. The symbolism of the key is taken from the first lecture first section UGLE. As Masons how do we hope to get at them? (Sns, Tns and Wds) By the help of a key. Does that key hang or lie? It hangs. Why is the preference given to hanging? It should always hang in a Brothers defence and never lie to his prejudice. What does it hang by? The thread of life in the passage of utterance, between gutteral and pectoral. Why so nearly connected with the heart? Being an index of the mind, it should utter nothing but what the heart truly dictates. It is a curious key, of what metal is it composed? No metal it is the tongue of good report. David Post #18422 « Prev Topic | Next Topic » 33 posts, Page 3 of 4«««1234»» Reading This Topic Active Users: 0 (0 guests, 0 members, 0 anonymous members) Forum Moderators: TFM Admin, Mike Martin, Stu Thorpe, Tom Cherup Forum Jump... ---------------- Forum Home Search Members List Calendar Who's Online ---------------- Site Announcements |-- Announcements General |-- Greetings to our New Forumites |-- General Masonic Discussion |-- Masonic History (Legend -V- Fact) |-- Ritual - Esoteric & Symbols |-- Travellers' Diary & Dates |-- The Reading/Watching Room |-- The Appendant Degrees and Orders |-- Feminine & Co-Masonry |-- Knobs & Excrescences All times are GMT, Time now is 4:06pm Powered By InstantForum.NET v4.1.4 © 2010 Execution: 0.062. 10 queries. Compression Disabled.
Can some of the posters give some examples of how they have developed out of the Masonic Ritual for the less experienced (such as myself).
Mike I have stated on another thread that I consider masonic work, WET work, ie, Western Esoteric Tradition, and I consider that the Jewish religion, or more importantly, Kabbalah as its vessel, and in my view masonry derives from the Judeo/christian traditions, so that is where my view comes from, I may be wrong, however masonry means different things to different people, we are told in the 2nd degree to make the study of nature and science our goal, I just probably took it differently then others.
As a further complication, I consider that the judeo/christian religion to come directly from an older source, so I see things differently. Please, you do not have to agree with me, and as stated I may be completely wrong
Mike, firstly my apologies for rushing above reply, I should have taken more time over it,
Masonry, as we know it from 1717, is related to the Judeo/Christian religion, however, the moral story and essential truths behind it dates from a far earlier time.
As stated I believe the Jewish religion, or more specifically The Kabbalah to be the custodian of these truths ( WET) , preserving if you like, this knowledge for our generation and beyond.
On the face of it, they appear not to link into masonic ritual,although the ritual is full of OT ( Old Testament) truths and sayings, and for the enquiring mind one needs to study the associated writings of the OT ( Like Kabbalah etc) to recieve a fuller understanding of what is being conveyed.
You and I may read the same piece of ritual and understand it differently, but that does not mean either one of us has got it wrong, and if you are able to partially part the veil your view and understanding will be different to mine.
Mike, my views did not develop out of the ritual, rather the other way around, by reading and talking with more learned masons than myself.
Please understand that this is my view only, and I may have completely gotten it wrong, and BTW my viewpoint does change over time
Personally I put Sitchin on a par with Erich von Daniken and Immanuel Velikovski but we'll have to agree to differ on that one.
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