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World Cup 2010 Rate Topic Display Mode Topic Options Author Message lauderdale Posted 31/01/2010 23:34 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/09/2010 18:37 Posts: 2,238, Visits: 4,272 I cannot take anyone with a namelike Michael Buble (I understand he pronouces it BOOBLY) seriously! Post #17946 bod Posted 01/02/2010 18:27 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 19:28 Posts: 329, Visits: 613 Vintagemalt (30/01/2010) Personally I am not a supporter of football but from what I understand and read about it this competition should be avoided at all costs. It is likely to be a very dangerous place to be. Football fans from Europe are notorious trouble makers, especially english supporters. There is likely going to be a high degree of hooliganism, drunkenes and violence. Rugby, cricket and other sports very little or no trouble.. football is an excuse for all out warfare to a section of English and other European supporters. Stephen In the last 5 years I have attended Premier league and cup matches and only seen trouble once - so I strongly refute your allegation about football supporters and violence (just for the record I am also a very keen rugby follower) . National games have seen even less trouble of late. I doubt there will be very much fan trouble in SA for the World Cup, prohibitive cost of travel being a main deterent - very large SA policeman with guns and very hungry dogs are likely to be another! Post #17987 Vintagemalt Posted 01/02/2010 19:45 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 23:44 Posts: 684, Visits: 1,972 We shall see bod, we shall see. My son works as a doorman - he does the football shifts in the local pubs he would absolutely disagree with you. Completely, 100%, without doubt. The hooligan trouble is masked & covered up. It is still there though. Time will tell what happens in South Africa. Maybe these armed policemen and dogs will keep it to a minimum, that is still not the atmosphere I would wish to be a part of.   Stephen    Inner Guard. Lodge of Humility 8464, Kings Court, Chandlers Ford. Steward. Albert Edward HRA Chapter 1780, Albion Place, Southampton. The Norman Lodge of Mark Master Masons 1279, Kings Court, Chandlers Ford. Hampshire Lodge of Emulation 1990 Lodge of Instruction.   Post #17988 Alan Campbell Posted 01/02/2010 22:08 Past Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 19:56 Posts: 1,101, Visits: 1,343 Most countries have already sent some of their allocation of tickets back to SA, including England. This is due to the public and media perception that SA is a dangerous place to go to, when you head off the main public areas. Now i don't know this personally but listening to the debates on sports radio programmes, the data they are receiving is don't travel unless with an official party. As for the hooligan element, most european countries have a hooligan element which travels with them and traditionally the english have always been the worst for this. At the games though i think that will be a non starter due to the policing that is involved at the games. If the idiots want to start something downtown after or before the match then hell mend them. Post #17993 bod Posted 01/02/2010 22:38 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 19:28 Posts: 329, Visits: 613 Vintagemalt (01/02/2010) My son works as a doorman - he does the football shifts in the local pubs he would absolutely disagree with you. Completely, 100%, without doubt. The hooligan trouble is masked & covered up. It is still there though. (snipped for brevity) Stephen With respect for your son, and the job he does, what he sees has nothing to do with football. It has a lot to do with alcohol and lack of self control. Every home game there are around 35000 people leaving the ground I go to, the incidents of trouble taking place at football grounds are very very small. That said I will not dispute that there are a number of scrote's and 'erberts who use team colours as an excuse to get violent. And it has been around for some time! "The first recorded instances of football hooliganism in the modern game took place in the 1880s in England, a period when gangs of supporters would intimidate neighbourhoods, as well as attack referees and opposing supporters and players. In 1885, after Preston North End beat Aston Villa 5-0 in a friendly match, the two teams were pelted with stones; attacked with sticks, punched, kicked and spat at. One Preston player was beaten so severely that he lost consciousness. Press reports of the time described the fans as "howling roughs".[5] The following year, Preston fans fought Queen's Park fans in a railway station; the first recorded instance of football hooliganism away from a match. In 1905, several Preston fans were tried for hooliganism, including a "drunk and disorderly" 70 year old woman, following their match against Blackburn Rovers.[5] Between the two world wars, there were no recorded instance of football hooliganism, (though for example Millwall's ground was reportedly closed in 1920, 1934 and 1950 after crowd disturbances) but it started attracting widespread media attention in the late 1950s due to its re-emergence in Latin America. In the 1955-56 English football season, Liverpool and Everton fans were involved in a number of incidents. By the 1960s, an average of 25 hooligan incidents were being reported each year in England." (taken from Wiki so it must be true!!) Also - football isn't the only sport to experience problems with it's spectators, the first recorded crowd trouble was riot at a Chariot race in Ancient Rome, and it lasted a week! Post #17999 Vintagemalt Posted 01/02/2010 22:52 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 23:44 Posts: 684, Visits: 1,972 Ho hum... a valiant tempt to defend the indefensible bod.... heard it all before.......It takes 500 police... tens of thousands of your english pounds... and months of organisation to keep control of the people who attend your football matches. Yes it does then squeeze the problems out on to the streets. Lets just agree to differ on this one. I go to Murrayfield to see a rugby game and three policemen and a traffic warden keep control of 50,000 people who are also 'having a drink' even inside the ground, there is NO segregation and NO trouble!   Stephen    Inner Guard. Lodge of Humility 8464, Kings Court, Chandlers Ford. Steward. Albert Edward HRA Chapter 1780, Albion Place, Southampton. The Norman Lodge of Mark Master Masons 1279, Kings Court, Chandlers Ford. Hampshire Lodge of Emulation 1990 Lodge of Instruction.   Post #18003 lauderdale Posted 01/02/2010 23:26 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/09/2010 18:37 Posts: 2,238, Visits: 4,272 Yes, Bro VM when I was at Twickers a week ago there were about 33K people there. All the supporters were mixed not segregated, there was no foul language, no hate filled chants or songs, alcoholic drink was freely available and the Police presence was low key.  A great time was had by all and there were both London Irish and Leinster fans in the same coaches going home and enjoying the craic.  I know which I would rather attend! Post #18005 bod Posted 02/02/2010 15:32 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 19:28 Posts: 329, Visits: 613 Not really attempting to defend the indefensible - just countering prejudice, incorrect assumptions and 'blanket bombing' of a section of the population. As I said many thousands go to live football games every week, there is very little trouble. Some violent idiots cause trouble away from the ground and the entire football going population get tarred with the same brush. It's like me saying all Scots are Buckie drinking violent alcoholics based on the fact there were several thousand incidents recorded featuring Scots and Buckie in a three year period by one Scottish police force Policing outside football grounds is practically non existent these days other than for 'high risk' games. Post #18034 multisync Posted 02/02/2010 19:37 Journeyman Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 05:56 Posts: 135, Visits: 1,024 Vintagemalt (01/02/2010) I go to Murrayfield to see a rugby game and three policemen and a traffic warden keep control of 50,000 people who are also 'having a drink' even inside the ground, there is NO segregation and NO trouble!   Hardly surprising for a game at which needs the fans to sing hymns for excitement... 3954 Post #18046 Free State Boer Posted 22/02/2010 17:34 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 15/08/2010 13:45 Posts: 89, Visits: 172 Guys, South Africa is not that bad, the media like to report on it so it is always in the media. London has knife crime and many incidents of violence. I am sure the FIFA world cup 2010 will be great, and hope some of the visitors, who are masons, will visit our lodges, We have Scottish, English, Irish and Grand Lodge of South Afirca. You will be most welcome and looked after well. 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